Talk:Wizzards and Warriors

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W38 Serpentine Dragon: this figure is listed as "Red Dragon" in "The Fantastic Worlds of Grenadier" and is shown as v1 and v2 (which I have labelled as "A v1" and "A v2". The later version is the one without wings and it is shown as "W38 Serpentine Dragon" in Bulletin #4. But the other 2 versions of "Serpentine Dragon" do not appear to be shown anywhere as part of Wizzards ranges. Can anyone prove they were? What have I missed? These versions "B v1" and "B v2" only appear in the Action Art sets. - Cattwister 18:08, 2 March 2020 (GMT)

RE: W32 Elementals
Both pics look like the same fig.

Look at the history on the second image, it used to be the other figure. Now, that second image name is referenced in two spots on the page, one for the blister pack and one for the WW02 boxed set. Looks like silverhawkminiatures intended to change the figure included in the boxed set and inadvertently changed both spots. I'm not that familiar with the old W&W stuff, and we don't have an image of the box insert, so I'm not 100% sure which of those figures is actually the right one to show with the boxed set.

I've got one really poorly painted from an Ebay lot (where else!) and will see if I can locate it. -- SGR

You mean the fire elemental? I just reverted the image to the original one (you may have to refresh your browser cache to see the change). The thing to be sorted out is which one the WW02 boxed set was supposed to point at. silverhawkminiatures titled the entry 'fire elemental' but then overwrote the image with one that appeared to be the earth elemental ... i dunno what is right there but the WW02 boxed set may need to have the image it links to changed.

that fixed both -- SGR

I'm updating the page with info from the order sheet here: . I am not deleting anything that was already listed. Please check before editing out what I've put in. It seems there were two blister versions for many product numbers. Also, if you know for sure that the fig in question was re-used in a later package, which we already have a pic for, please edit that filename in, but only if you're absolutely sure no resculpting was done to the fig. Also, I've put the Double Blister Dioramic Sets separately from the Special Sets, even though they are probably the same figs with different product codings. Thanks for looking this over.--Mysticat 23:10, 3 May 2011 (CDT)

I wouldn't think that the Funny Fantasies and Specials listed at the bottom would belong on this page. - TheGrouch

Interesting that the SS11 Throne Room cushions are the same as the Dragontooth E1 High Elf shield!

Why, so they seem! Dragontooth was in competition with Grenadier at the time these figs came out, so it seems like an infringement on Grenadier's part. That would point the finger at Andrew Chernak. Then again, perhaps it is a completely new sculpt of the idea and not a direct copy from a Dragontooth fig. It's not inconceivable that the pressure on a single sculptor in the early days of a company could encourage such an ethical breech. How hard would it have been to create an original fantasy pillow,that has no set form dictated to it? Well, considering Dragontooth used wax instead of putty (which easily holds more detail), that's a compliment for Dragontooth.--Mysticat 10:13, 9 May 2011 (CDT)
Bah. Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions. Why would this point the finger at Grenadier and not the other way around? Regardless, the obvious starting point would be to question if these images are accurate (i.e. did these pieces shown in the photos really come with both these sets). They look more like shields to me than plush cushions.
Actually, now that I'm not dragged out by my migraine, it's more likely that Dragontooth copied Grenadier - my reasoning is in the detail - Dragontooth sculpted in wax rather than in putty, which holds the detail much better. As for the images being accurate, I've seen these pieces in the flesh, but just never made the observation connection, since they were spaced far apart in time. To me they look more like cushions than shields - no shield would have such little bits sticking out of it that would ruin its integrity. Now here's a case where knowing the date of release would sort it out. The Dragontooth fig is listed in the 1981 Christmas release catalog, but at this time, Grenadier was phasing out the W&W sets into their AD&D "Solid Gold Line." In the 1982 Grenadier catalog, the SS11 code has already been given over to a Space Squadrons pack. This would point the finger at Dragontooth. Either way, I'm not so interested in knowing who violated who, but in the why it seemed necessary to the sculpter to cheat. Another possibility is that the sculptor didn't cheat - maybe he held the copyright and allowed its use over both companies. My digging would imply that Chernak sculpted the piece.--Mysticat 16:53, 12 May 2011 (CDT)
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